I’m so glad we’re taking about this because for some reason today (the reason is mental illness) I woke up thinking about Taylor and TTPD and how my Eras show was mid July 2023 which led me to googling the exact timeline of her and Matty which led to my discovery that she was quite literally right in the middle of doing it with a broken heart at my show. 😓
I also just went on a 6 hr road trip and only listened to TTPD and the good songs from Anthology (again, mental illness, etc etc) and I felt like I was deeper in the trenches of her psyche than possibly ever before. Several revelations were had and one of them occurred when listening to Smallest Man, when she says “you hung me on your wall” makes me think of ppl who hang posters of celebrities, turning them into something separate from who they really are, just an idea to be admired. And the “Stabbed me with your push pins” aligns with that but also makes me think of a voodoo doll (my boy only breaks his favorite toys.. hello??? Heard of it??) and I really REALLYYYY understood finally why she got so totally wrecked by this, she not only felt betrayed/heartbroken but felt used and then discarded, as if she were nothing more than a toy, a doll, an experiment, etc.
Combine that with what it must be like to be at that level of fame, so many people just seeing you as this thing, or idea, with what we know about her paranoia of being used (anti-hero bridge) and to have that be done to her by someone she was in love with???? Goodbye I’ll be in my padded cell 👋🏼
I gotta say, Madeline, I know you were joking-but you sounded great singing TTPD! Also, way to clock these parallels. There’s something creative people have with certain types. They’re drawn to the “free and connected” aspects of these personalities. Maybe he’s a lot of fun. I feel like she said a lot when she said “you’re not Dylan Thomas, I’m not Patti Smith.” She’s a pop star and so is he. The world is different. The music experience is different. It’s so easy to romanticize the past and forget who you really are in the present and not behave or treat others like archetypes.
I had the same thought when she sang that line! I was like…. Now hold on….. Madeline has a voice like that and they’re giving SELENA GOMEZ the mic? (I’m still a Sarb though, wait till I turn my love on, etc etc)
the way i literally put everything i was doing at work on hold, got myself some popcorn from the corner store, and came back to sit for this. and it's payday. perfect friday.
I mean… in Colors she says “You were red and you liked me 'cause I was blue/ But you touched me and suddenly I was a lilac sky/ And you decided purple just wasn't for you”. Basically saying that once she changed for the better, he changed as a partner and how he treated her. LOVE BOMBING. Like was matty trying to be malicious with Taylor…. Idk idk. But it is weird that this is kinda his MO. I also find it so funny that Halsey posted a story of her bf wearing TTPD merch.
Yeah, I don’t think intentionally malicious-I will says idon’t think he was using her for fame if that was the case he would have stayed longer…she says herself he was in love with the idea of her…and I suspect they hooked up more than once over a decade..it was probably passionate and exciting when no one knew about them…
I never saw the forbidden in that aspect. Like Madeline said I don’t think she really thought about matty until the last few years of being with Joe. I saw the forbidden as when they were younger and how I’m sure her record label hated the idea of her being with matty. It was forbidden in the way they kinda played the good girl bad boy trope and he probably loved that aspect. But then when they got together in 2023 I think it lost some of that initial excitement because Taylor now makes her own decisions about her personal life. And now that they can be together and have an actual relationship he was woken up to the realization that it does come with responsibilities. And it wasn’t sexy anymore, but serious.
Also, MH said recently he’s either on top of world or really down unable to function..,don’t want to speculate but seems that relates to relationships. He gets hyped up and showers attention and then something happens and it’s like it’s wiped away. There’s not a lot of equilibrium
Loved this…you know there is probably something about being in a band since a young age, you don’t grow up especially if predisposed to be like that and don’t have to get a real job like the rest of us. I worked at a popular music venue for a couple of years and have to say many of the musicians whether 20 or 40 acted the same, chasing girls, drinking, drugs, etc…
listened to this while inflating a ring-shaped inflatable alone in an airbnb before a bachelorette party and it really got me through. once again thank you lizard for being totally entertaining and deeply insightful!!
Hi Madeline: Lyon night 2 the surprise songs! Your favorite performed on the piano and it was so sad I literally cried a little bit; what a sad song and what a moving, beautiful performance. I am sure you loved this.
**And boy was this an interesting discussion! Really hit Taylor incredibly hard- she had to have respected him and enjoy his music and performing (and wanted to know him better)-- just so complicated. It feels sometimes listening to you and Zack that Taylor is highly protected and lives within parameters ... making her "private" life so complicated. **
Just listened to your Matty lyrical analysis on EOAS and now re-listening to this-- whoa so weird; so cult like. I wonder well no I assume they both did drugs with Matty-- the outer space reference and also he was sexually well sort of kinky maybe...plus he's so mouthy right and these women, these ultra creative women still found him insanely intriguing; it's painful for any of us women that have dated toxic men that acted one way but really never, ever had any intentions...
This episode is fantastic. Made my day yesterday! Do you think the TS lyric from FOTS "Gray and blue and fights and tunnels" is a nod to Halsey's song Colors wherein she specifically sings about the colors Gray and Blue?
CLOCKED LIKE BIG BEN!!!!! DING DONG!!!!!!!
I’m so glad we’re taking about this because for some reason today (the reason is mental illness) I woke up thinking about Taylor and TTPD and how my Eras show was mid July 2023 which led me to googling the exact timeline of her and Matty which led to my discovery that she was quite literally right in the middle of doing it with a broken heart at my show. 😓
I also just went on a 6 hr road trip and only listened to TTPD and the good songs from Anthology (again, mental illness, etc etc) and I felt like I was deeper in the trenches of her psyche than possibly ever before. Several revelations were had and one of them occurred when listening to Smallest Man, when she says “you hung me on your wall” makes me think of ppl who hang posters of celebrities, turning them into something separate from who they really are, just an idea to be admired. And the “Stabbed me with your push pins” aligns with that but also makes me think of a voodoo doll (my boy only breaks his favorite toys.. hello??? Heard of it??) and I really REALLYYYY understood finally why she got so totally wrecked by this, she not only felt betrayed/heartbroken but felt used and then discarded, as if she were nothing more than a toy, a doll, an experiment, etc.
Combine that with what it must be like to be at that level of fame, so many people just seeing you as this thing, or idea, with what we know about her paranoia of being used (anti-hero bridge) and to have that be done to her by someone she was in love with???? Goodbye I’ll be in my padded cell 👋🏼
I gotta say, Madeline, I know you were joking-but you sounded great singing TTPD! Also, way to clock these parallels. There’s something creative people have with certain types. They’re drawn to the “free and connected” aspects of these personalities. Maybe he’s a lot of fun. I feel like she said a lot when she said “you’re not Dylan Thomas, I’m not Patti Smith.” She’s a pop star and so is he. The world is different. The music experience is different. It’s so easy to romanticize the past and forget who you really are in the present and not behave or treat others like archetypes.
I had the same thought when she sang that line! I was like…. Now hold on….. Madeline has a voice like that and they’re giving SELENA GOMEZ the mic? (I’m still a Sarb though, wait till I turn my love on, etc etc)
it wasnt sexy once it wasnt forbidden... UGH. this is devastating. fuck this guy.
I'm so glad this ep isn't paywalled, because I needed to share the spotify link on Twitter and everywhere else.
EXACTLYYYY
the way i literally put everything i was doing at work on hold, got myself some popcorn from the corner store, and came back to sit for this. and it's payday. perfect friday.
I mean… in Colors she says “You were red and you liked me 'cause I was blue/ But you touched me and suddenly I was a lilac sky/ And you decided purple just wasn't for you”. Basically saying that once she changed for the better, he changed as a partner and how he treated her. LOVE BOMBING. Like was matty trying to be malicious with Taylor…. Idk idk. But it is weird that this is kinda his MO. I also find it so funny that Halsey posted a story of her bf wearing TTPD merch.
Yeah, I don’t think intentionally malicious-I will says idon’t think he was using her for fame if that was the case he would have stayed longer…she says herself he was in love with the idea of her…and I suspect they hooked up more than once over a decade..it was probably passionate and exciting when no one knew about them…
I never saw the forbidden in that aspect. Like Madeline said I don’t think she really thought about matty until the last few years of being with Joe. I saw the forbidden as when they were younger and how I’m sure her record label hated the idea of her being with matty. It was forbidden in the way they kinda played the good girl bad boy trope and he probably loved that aspect. But then when they got together in 2023 I think it lost some of that initial excitement because Taylor now makes her own decisions about her personal life. And now that they can be together and have an actual relationship he was woken up to the realization that it does come with responsibilities. And it wasn’t sexy anymore, but serious.
Yes, you are probably right…his manager said something along the lines of he has the biggest ego and lowest self worth of anyone he knows..
Also, MH said recently he’s either on top of world or really down unable to function..,don’t want to speculate but seems that relates to relationships. He gets hyped up and showers attention and then something happens and it’s like it’s wiped away. There’s not a lot of equilibrium
At first glance I thought you were gonna say he gets hyped up and showers 😂
Lol
Loved this…you know there is probably something about being in a band since a young age, you don’t grow up especially if predisposed to be like that and don’t have to get a real job like the rest of us. I worked at a popular music venue for a couple of years and have to say many of the musicians whether 20 or 40 acted the same, chasing girls, drinking, drugs, etc…
listened to this while inflating a ring-shaped inflatable alone in an airbnb before a bachelorette party and it really got me through. once again thank you lizard for being totally entertaining and deeply insightful!!
LMFAOOO I LOVE IT
Hi Madeline: Lyon night 2 the surprise songs! Your favorite performed on the piano and it was so sad I literally cried a little bit; what a sad song and what a moving, beautiful performance. I am sure you loved this.
**And boy was this an interesting discussion! Really hit Taylor incredibly hard- she had to have respected him and enjoy his music and performing (and wanted to know him better)-- just so complicated. It feels sometimes listening to you and Zack that Taylor is highly protected and lives within parameters ... making her "private" life so complicated. **
Absolutely loved loved loved this episode - my sick brain clocked in who it was about the second I saw the title.
Though I thought you would mention how the alchemy and colors are alike sound wise, or maybe that's just me??
you've gotta be an it's always sunny fan to keep bringing up pepe silvia and thank the lord you've got great TV taste too <3
Men don't change :/ -- women do however we are so much more reflective. I LOVE this discussion thanks Madeline.
Just listened to your Matty lyrical analysis on EOAS and now re-listening to this-- whoa so weird; so cult like. I wonder well no I assume they both did drugs with Matty-- the outer space reference and also he was sexually well sort of kinky maybe...plus he's so mouthy right and these women, these ultra creative women still found him insanely intriguing; it's painful for any of us women that have dated toxic men that acted one way but really never, ever had any intentions...
This episode is fantastic. Made my day yesterday! Do you think the TS lyric from FOTS "Gray and blue and fights and tunnels" is a nod to Halsey's song Colors wherein she specifically sings about the colors Gray and Blue?